【HUMANITY AND ART INTERVIEWS】
AESTHETIC DIRECTION OF MILITARY LYRICISM IN THE LYRIC HISTORY
QIAO YAN: MILITARY LYRICISM AS CARRIAR OF POETIC ENGINEERING SCIENCE
HUMANITY AND ART INTERVIEW OF 21ST CENTURY /ISW
Zhang Wenzhe : poet， literary theorist ，compere of ISW， former editor -in chief of Poetry Journal Yellow Liver
Qiao Yan: former deputy director of PLA press， executive chairman of International Pen club For Chinese Poets
Zhang Wenzhe: I think poets need to open a certain space-time that make him linked up with historic person or heroes， the poetic object and subject would still be in the state of isolation and alienation， if haven’t got this peculiarity. So a poem’s achievement may be built on the basis of the unity of the subject and object， and be the combination by crashing between the history and time， this combination always brings younger poetic scenery and new thoughts sight to us. At present， China is undergoing the great revitalization ， in our diplomacy businesses， we generally use the word” juvenilization” to describe this renaissance——can we deem that there is a juvenilization in writer’s creation necessarily， or there must exist this “juvenilized movement of thoughts and spirit stimulated by creations itself？How to define this form of “juvenilization” in personal creation?
Qiaoyan: the fact proved that a country， a person， can be described with “juvenilization”. it is to say that ， they just recovered a certain energy by depending on a revolution ， a resort， and changed the outlook， restarted a new path.ass日本少妇pc
The juvenilization of China， is the rewriting of the Chinese history of a few thousand years， so as it be young naturally， symbols the start of another history. Writers have naturally a stage of juvenilization， or “puberty”. it’s none of age’s business， but relate to the creation contents and mentality.
When we say somebody becomes young， it refers to the distinguish between the work and age， also it is a certain recognition.
To say writers and poets， its important to keep young mentality. Li Yin said ever: the poet is the kid that find beauty in idealism. Kids themselves are young naturally. To me， to keep a poetic heart， keep the mentality of police for poem， use the eyes of poem， power of poem to arm myself， is my all assignment. When a person correct his mentality， review the time that he lived in， be kind to peoples around ， remind himself constantly， his poet therefore can be surely young. As the proverb goes， the secret of which “the outlook originates from the heart” is here.
就作者墨客而言， 保持年青的心态至关紧要 。李瑛曾说 ；“墨客，是在现实和渴望中寻找美的孩子。”孩子本身是芳华的。于我而言，保持一颗诗心，保持诗的考察精神，用诗的眼神、诗的力量武装我方，是我全部的作业。当一个人摆正心态，反观身处的这个期间，善待身边的人和事，束缚地提纯我方， 他的诗歌一定是芳华的。俗语说，“相由心生”的微妙就在于此。
ZWZ: I think that the manner of creation is also changed by stimulus of technology. For example， at present day of vision media， vision has been a more favorite readings， so， how can the literalness to face such varies， especially for the poem? The work of usually being recited as a work of audio frequency， what is the limit of it?
Qiaoyan: In our era of We-Media， to lead people’s eyes to the more broad realm， give poetry a more wide space， what a good idea! Poems walk down from paper， no more the soundless reading， rather it find its broader market when allies with the reciting. I have a deep apperception of it， my long poems The Whinnying Of The Zebra; Kneeling Down Before You For One Thousand; July! July! and so on ， have been all recited in the cloud and the space offline， there were massive readers or audiences with number from hundreds of thousands of to tens of millions of. July !July! During the CPC construction centenary anniversary， the recitation divided into six parts， in every part， there were hundreds of people online to listen in， later the video of recitation be transferred ， and reached its best effects of echo.
In social realm， poetic recitation be used widely， it’s no doubt that when people broadcast poems， they make the seeds of poem sowed everywhere.enlarged the impact of poem， it can’t be underestimated of its influence unconsciously. This is also the bright path from anti-popularization to popularization.
The We-Media is only one aspect . if we utilize the image measure， put the poem of which is rich in plots onto such stage of video， or film it into the poetic film， short poetic play， it deserve to be expected. As regards this aspect， the poetry plenary session of China broadcast by the CCTV， is a good way to transit the Chinese classical poetry. The ancient poem that we just think it is far away from us today， came back in one night to publicize widely， this bunch of light of poem， exists still ， deeply too in everyone’s heart.
Another form that born at the right moment is the Spring Festival Evening of poetry， its broad， rich， massive，originality， caused responds of storm like on the wide ground.
the spring festival evening of poem is a good form， however， it is the passion of folk， it hasn’t got its support from the national system， how can it go further by only a few persons’ passion leading the folk?
■峭 岩：自媒体期间 ，把人们的眼神引向更广阔的界限 ，给诗歌找到了一个更广阔的空间 ，何等好啊 ！诗歌从纸上走下来 ，不再是无声的阅读 ，尤其是与诵读结缘找到了更广阔的市集。对于这件事我有深深的感悟 ，我的长詩《萧萧班马鸣》、《跪你一千年》、《七月！七月！》等长诗，都曾在云中、场下诵读 ，受众千万、几十万，上百万都是有的。《七月！七月！》在建党百年期间先后分6场诵读 ，每次都有几百人线上收听，过后又转发视频，着力特等的好。
在社会上，诗诵读这一时局盛大取舍 ，无疑，在实施诗歌的同期，也让诗歌的种子播送四方，扩大了诗歌的影响力 ，这种潜移暗化的作用不可小视 。这亦然诗歌小众化，走向大众化的一条光明之路。
我说的是自媒体的一个方面 。如果诈欺影像技巧，把耗损情节的诗歌搬上视频舞台，拍成诗电影、诗短剧，是一个美好的期待。这方面，央视播出的中国诗词大会，对传播中国古典优秀诗词是一个十分好的举措 。咱们认为走远了的古代诗词，就在今夜之间告白昼下 ，这束诗词的后光依然存在，况且深入民气 。 应时而生的中国诗歌春晚 ，它的盛大性、丰富性、群众性 、 独创性 ，在广阔的地面上，引起狂飙式的反响 。
中国诗歌春晚 ，天然是一个好的时局 ，可惜的是，它是民间的温煦，它莫得国度体制资金的相沿 ，靠几个人的温煦佩戴民间的温煦 ，不知能走多远 ？
ZWZ: as regard the passion of folk as you said， I have seen a lot of folk group of poem， they are just as you have estimated， without being a group of “constantly illuminating”. so ，under your sparkle estimation， I still recognize that it is reasonable. Maybe its the reflection of poem as such under the national situation. Its may still be controversial. Let us just ask in another word——how to promote the creation passion of poem of our time.
Qiaoyan: There are varieties of manners for improving the poetry， publishing， comments and rewards， these measure going in our era， some from nation， some initiated by a group， some are from folk. Because of its disparity in origins of momentum， there are different criteria， and variety of problems. How to make these measure to be accepted by the mass， make the measures exert its effects of safeguarding fair， justice， paradigm?---- we still need to try our best.
Having since been peripherized for a long time of poetry. It was paid a great attention to by nation ，including the authorities. It’s impossible ， or rather unpractical to make the poem go into the centre of public opinions. The poem only possessed a corner of literature， its enough to possess a tiny place in public spirit life. So to say the corrective creation of nowadays integrally， we can’t do the poem under one order， when the poem principles have not yet been the law of nation. We only can take out excellent poems to call for broad masses of poets， there is no other way except creating poems without betraying the age.
■峭 岩：促进诗歌的鼎沸，技巧是万般的 ，发表，出书、评奖 ，这些技巧依然进行着，有的是国度的，有的是团体的，有的是民间的 。由于能源开始不一样，审美圭臬不一样，就出现了如此这般的问题。如何使这些技巧得到大众的认同 ，使技巧阐述自制、正义、典范的作用，还需要做更大的致力于 。
诗歌的边缘化 ，由来已久。国度包括权益部门一直是珍摄的 ，让诗歌走进公论的中央也不可能 ，更不切合现实。诗歌仅仅文体的一个旯旮，在大众的心目中占有一隅之地就不错了 。所谓期间集体的诗歌创作，就合座而言，在诗歌莫得干预法律文本的时间 ，很难做到调解命令 。咱们只可拿出优秀的诗歌号召弘远墨客 ，写稿不愧期间的诗歌，别无他法。
ZWZ: How do you think of the politic lyricism ，should it have a form that distinguished from the past ，or from the initial stage literature tradition of national construction of socialism? Of course， we all know， the political lyricism need to be generated by politic environment， how do you think about the present politic form? In what environment can it be cultivated? We have found that ， in aspect of film and television art， there is no less than large quantities of politic lyricism works ， is it an certain prompt given to the poetic creation?
Qiaoyan: poem is clothes of a time， a poem of whatever it is can only generated from its own age. Today is a new brand time of never been， the expression form of initial stage of socialistic nation naturally will be changed or evolved， to be a form of which is popular in contemporaries， is inevitable in history. I am always thinking that ， the politic is the idea of a time， a society， a nation， but poem can not be reproduced， it is not a megaphone of the politic. The poem is living through its unique poses， meanings， languages， and echos.
But we shouldn’t deny the achievement of poems during the initial stage of socialistic nation， the politic lyrics wrote by Guo Xiaocuan and He Jingzhi is the products of that time， its reasonable for having their colour of that age. Their poems not only have politic height， but also have their skills of poetic technology. Poem should change when there is a significant reform with society， this is just the necessity of history.
We should admit that ，our country have been great changed， we can’t be too conservative， we have to face the globalization from life to culture， from consciousness to aesthetics， no more stand on the origin place， but progress to the more broad space. Poem should has its new attitude to follow up the great social(time)， to effect on the era. The poetic passion of what you have said is on this sense too.
■峭 岩：诗歌是一个期间的穿着，什么期间就产生什么样的诗歌 。今天是一个邃古以来的斩新期间 ，社会主张初期的抒发时局天然会被窜改或演进，转机成现代人脍炙人丁的时局 ，是历史的势必 。我一直认为 ，政事是一个国度、一个社会、一个期间的理念，政事催生诗歌 ，但诗歌不成复制政事 ，它不是政事的传声筒。诗歌是通过它独到的体势、意向、谈话，反馈生存的。
但不应否定社会主张初期所取得的诗歌树立 ， 郭晓川、贺敬之的政事抒怀诗是阿谁期间的产物 ，带有阿谁期间的政事色调是合理的 。他们的诗不仅有政事高度，更难得的是有着诗歌身手的技巧。当社会发生了紧要变革的时间， 诗歌应当窜改 ，这亦然历史的势必 。
应当承认，咱们的国度发生了天下长久的变化，由于开放咱们不成固守一方，还有濒临全球一体化 ，从生存到文化 ，从意志到审美，都不再不敢越雷池一步，朝着更无边的空间突进。诗歌要有一个新的姿态跟进大社会的脚步 ，而宏图大展。你所说的期间共同的诗歌激情也在于此。
ZWZ: when poem want to effect on era， or in other words， to effect on” the renaissance of the nation”， it has no other ideas except “politic lyricism”， right?
Qiaoyan: The renaissance of nation， first of all ， is the renaissance of culture( but not politic resilience). To this problem， there is a pose has been showed on the country level. Which means to rectify the artists， clear the videos， correct and clean the originality， supporting the justice and eliminating the evil， have got a good result. It objectively made a solid foundation for the great poems. Poets must be awake， not to follow the trends with crowds， but to keep distance from the hot point of press to maintain independent. The politic lyric is the visualization of the idealism， dealing with the sublimation of beauty and kindness， but not the entanglements and iconography. It deserve to be expected for the poem’s fortune.久久天天躁夜夜躁狠狠2018
I have ever said， its the other passage that the poem’s birth， this passage is full of imagination and freedom with fresh and rare quality. It is stripped of the conceptualization， journalistic，and routinization， use the artistic conception，image，language to complete its mission. Poet construct his own style， language system， forms his unique individual style. Cassirer( Deutsch philosopher) had said: the exclusive topic admitted by the the true poetic form is the mystical things， marvelous things， unthinkable things . he also said，that ， “the most great achievement and privilege of the art ， is its relation with ordinary things are burned away by itself. The art must be a certain mystery of which scared by the mortal men and vulgar persons.” Namely ， the poet need to complete the systematic projects of philosophy and sacredness， it is the same as Nietzsche said， “poets are all philosophers.”
Of course， the politic lyrics under present system， have a another potential， namely its practicality on the stage， for encouragement and propaganda， some drastic and realistic incidental works， works more political than artistic， are usually to be seen， but our discussion only concerns works which are qualified by essence of poetry.
■峭 岩： 民族回话 ，起先是文化回话（不是政事回话） 。在这个问题上，国度层面还是做出了姿态。整顿艺人 ，计帐视频 ，正本清源 ，扶正怯邪 ，还是有了好的迹象。客观上为产生大诗歌奠定了基础。墨客要清醒，不成奏淆乱，要远离新闻热门而寂然，政事抒怀是渴望的形象化，向美向善的升华处理，而不是纠缠和图解。诗歌的改日可期。
ZWZ: according to what Cassirer said， “to be amazing!”-----what poem may make you surprised? Or impress you deeply? Or impact you with brand new language? Can you give an example?
Qiaoyan: Poem is the presentation of life and language， one poem of certain style is corresponding to the personality of one who is the author of the poem.I like poems which are ethereal， forthright and sincere，simple， newly in image， and with language quality. All of these characters therefore formed the magnetism， it will infect you， grasp your eyes， and then your heart， make you can’t cease to read it.
For example， the sophisticated poet Li Ying ever wrote a poem titled with A Horseshoe， its so profound and unexpected from the topic’s election to building the context， from the style to the language， make reader impressed by the power of which unforgettable. He said that ， a horseshoe hanging on the wall/ a horseshoe that becomes thin and rusty by grinding， hanging in my schoolroom/like being wrapped by the rain and between the disorder mountains of south China/ long road of two thousand li hanging there/history hanging there/ maybe it is a bone of my horse/ maybe it is a bone of a time/ I see my white horse as soon as I see it/ with flying long horse hair and four hoofs struggling to rise / that is the time of which should be pretended by the tree branches and grass foliage/ only blood/ only the strong and hard hoof and horseshoe/ being so true in the life/ but now， the hoofbeat goes far away with clattering/ in every midnight/ it remind it of uneven road between mountains/ make it pant/ recall the river ever wade through with flame light reflected red/and be excited/ think of the thunder of guns and shots/ dashed forward at once / to find the motherland/ at the place with no way. Its really naturally for the poet to imaged such plot from a horseshoe， and “to find the motherland”even more astonishing ， lit the topic incidentally， so to say， the displaying before put the sensibility onto the summit， got a profound and deepest meaning.
The poems of Naye， always attracted me by its independent and ego-reaction. Her poem Life has its broad and concentration featured in “seeing big from the small”.She said that ， “life， I loved you ever/ like in childhood loving a black candy drop/ make a lick of it/ wrap it at once in a candy paper/ lick it / lick it slower and slower/ wrap it faster and faster/ and now left only my candy and me/ I must restrain/ from being sadness. A black candy， is here to assimilate with the diversity ， complexity， and mindset of life as such， “I must restrain， being sadness” is the note of life， also is the remind.
Please look at this poem Smelting The Iron: “that year， LuDao and his master learn to smelt the iron/ it is just burn the days to be like the red-hot iron/ one hammer with one trail/ one hammer with one trauma/ is that shooting star the dream with multiple arris?/walking through the flesh/ the master said smelting the iron is smelting youself/ I like the sound of smelting/ I like the light of the sun/ covers our earthy life/the great desert， rivers/the dusk，and the upcoming poem for quenching/the master said that / to smelt the iron is to smelt the bone of history/ Ji Kang was very concentrating/ he keep smelting all over the life in country Qiao/ that man who like the pig iron/ unexpectedly smelted the tail of Three Nation into a poem/ thence no more the Prelude Of Guang Ling/ the master said / smelting the iron can put one to death.
This is the poem from poet Ludao， his very publicly poem， his sharp and penetrating of language， have been attended by the poetry circles.
A White Hair(author: Ci Le Cuan) is also my favorite poem， a white hair dropped on the desk/ like a passage of time which is indispensable/ be attended or be ignored/ are both of no significant/ a white hair finally find itself/ like the fate find the fortune/ like the human find the life/ a white hair always sigh/ like a strand of tied sunshine，/ can it lie down for a while in silence now/ and then to say with timidity/I use all over my life / let the dark of body/ ultimately go to the end”
Such poem makes us being awake， can give us more valuable things.
比如老墨客李瑛的《一只马蹄铁》，从选题到造境、从格式到谈话，是那么深刻而特等不虞，有读后不忘的力量。他说：“一只马蹄铁吊挂在墙上/一只磨薄的生锈的马蹄铁/静静地挂在我的书斋里/犹如被雨水裹着的中国南边乱山间的/两千里长路吊挂在那儿/历史吊挂在那儿/也许它是我的马的一块骨头/也许它是期间的一块骨头/看见它便看见我那匹白色马/高涨的长鬃和奋起的四蹄/那是需要树枝和草叶伪装的年代/唯独血/唯独坚忍的蹄钉和铁掌/在生存里何等真实/而今，哒哒哒的蹄声远去了/但每当夜半/它想起荆棘的山路/便会喘气/想起蹚止境光映红的河水/便会高亢/想起枪声和炮声/便会嘶鸣着上前冲去/在莫得路的场地/寻找故国 。”墨客从一只马蹄铁逸猜想的情节确乎着实，天然贴切。而“寻找故国 ”一语惊人，一刹那把主题点亮，不错说前边的铺陈， 无码临了把情感推上岑岭，意蕴悠远而深奥。
娜夜的诗歌，一直以寂然的、自我的思考招引我。她的《生存》有小中见大的轩敞与浓缩性。她说：“生存，我珍摄过你/像小时间珍摄一颗黑糖球/舔一口/立时用糖纸包上/舔一口/舔得越来越慢/包得越来越快/面前只剩下我和糖纸了/我必须忍住/忧伤。” 一块黑糖果，比方生存的万般性、复杂性、心态性，落笔“我必须忍住，忧伤 ”是对生存的注释，亦然提醒 。
请看《打铁》这首诗：“那一年绿岛和师父学打铁/便是把日子烧得通红/一锤一道陈迹/一锤一记伤口/那飞溅的流星是多棱的梦吗 ？/在身材中穿行/师父说打铁便是在打我方/我可爱打铁的声息/像太阳的后光/袒护咱们朴实的性命/ 大漠，河流/薄暮以及行将淬火的诗歌/师父说/打铁便是锻打历史的骨头/嵇康很专注/一世都是阿谁状貌/他在谯国打铁/阿谁像生铁一样孤傲的汉子/果然把三国的尾巴打进一首歌谣/从此，尘凡间再无广陵散/师父说/打铁不错打出生命。”
《一根白首 》〔作者：敕勒川〕我也很可爱这首诗 。“一根白首落在桌子上/像是一段无关大局的时光/被人防范或者忽略/都还是不紧要了/一根白首终于找到了我方/像命找到了运气/像人找到了人生/一根白首常舒了衔接/仿佛一缕累坏了的阳光/不错安稳定静地躺一躺了/然后，忌惮地说/我用一世/终于把身材里的昏黑//走罢了。”
ZWZ: In my point of view， Li Yin is a poet of more “material image” than “politic image” comparing with his contemporary， in other words， his consciousness of detail” more than his cognition of attraction. To say Ludao， there is something that is bursting with passion in his manner of critics， it is where his estimable being， therefore his poems is also full with the passion like his critics. To say the poems of Naye， there is a certain feature of sweet and fragrant that brought by women， including women’s dysphoric， craftiness，and persistence and sincere to life-----all of these poets are proficient， could you please talk about that who is your favorite young poets?
Qiaoyan: when enter into the new stage of history， the brand new life， and expectation for fortune， encouraged greatly a batch of young poets ，they grew in the sunshine and spring wind， they have vitality from youth itself， even be sensible and clever to poem， they are the vivifying force.
My place of writing is in the military service， of course， in my visionary ，more attentions that I have ever paid is to the young poets in army life than to local young poets， I only know few of their name. In recent one or two decades， there are such poets that impacted us much and being active in the military poetry circle: Wang Jiuxin， Cao Yuxiang， Guo Xiaohua， Li Ziguo， Ma Xiaoxiao， Kangqiao， Zhao Qiong， they are about 60 years old maybe. Relative to them， more youthful group is : Liu Xiaowei， Duixue， Pen Liuping， Zang Sijia， Ai Kou， Wang Fangfang， Dong Qinyue. These young poets with mentality of military life， are supporting the sky of military poetry with their hot blood and piety.
Just to give two examples here， one is the Kunlun wrote by Liu Xiaowei: always being wait for a poem to descent/ with the purling stream/ pulled the alarm of mountain/ wild birds lit the smoke of great desert/ ice being the heart/ melting rock being the heart also/ even the rock got its quality and temperature of muscles/ raise a faith/ to the power above the sky and sun” ----the style of soldiers on the Kunlun mountains are completely presented with unswerving determination like the solid and soaring column.
Peng Liuping is a more younger poet， his poem inherited the gene of military poetry， presented the very heroic nature. Bullets Out Of The Chamber wrote: throat of the horn roaring/growling growling growling as it phonated/ like the long tune pulled up by the tenorist/ I was pressed into a chamber/ by the big hand of war/ with velocity like lightning/ I can tell you that I / am a bullet/ a bullet that pretend to fall asleep/ ready to launch out of the chamber at all time/with gunpowder armed foot/firing pin need only a slight click /the fire in the body will inflated at once/ to bite the air like the meteors/ the sky and ground are then split into the two parts/ the brilliant track of the bullet/ tell the world/ I completed / a flicker that can only emerge for one time in my life.
Such young poets， are predicting the future of our national poetry.
■峭 岩：干预新的历史时期，簇新的生存，改日的期待，极大的荧惑了一批后生墨客 ，他们在阳光下长大，在春风里成长，这批后生墨客有芳华的朝气，更有诗歌的敏锐和忠良 ，他们是新期间的诗歌新力量。
我身在军旅，天然，我的视线里对军旅的后生墨客，有更多的关注。而对场地的后生墨客，也只可说出他们少数的名字。这一二十年，在军旅诗坛活跃的、有影响的是这些人 ：王久幸、曹宇翔、郭晓哗、李自国、马萧萧 、康桥 、赵琼，他们可能在60岁附近。更年青的有：刘笑伟、堆雪、彭流萍、臧思佳 、艾蔻、王方方、董庆月 。这些后生军旅墨客，以我方的热血衷肠，相沿起军旅诗的一派太空。
彭流萍是一位更年青少量的墨客，他的诗歌承传军旅诗的血脉，展示了别样的豪放。《出膛的枪弹 》：“军号的喉咙发出轰鸣/翁嗡嗡作响/像男高音拔起的长调 /我被干戈这只大手/以闪电般的速率压入枪膛/告诉你吧我/是一粒枪弹/一粒假装睡着的枪弹 /时刻准备出膛/脚底灌满炸药 /击针只需轻轻地“哒”一声/体内的火焰就须臾扩张 /撕咬空气像流星一样/天与地划开两半/概括的弹迹/告诉这个世界/我完成了/一世唯唯一次的闪光。”
ZWZ: Those military young poets who have been mentioned by you， are young to you， but to me， they are also “old poets”， the old predecessor. However， in you narration， I still can grasp their vividness， this vividness maybe exuded by the poem as such.
Let’s continue the topic of political lyricism， every generation of politic lyricism poet has their special task in times， could you please explain to the reader of this task of generation from your respective? Whether or not there is a conflict between the task of era and the essence of poem?
Qiaoyan: we have talked of some conception of political lyric poem above， admittedly， one poem has its own background of time， just like the snow in the winter， fish only can live in the water.
It need described as reciprocity between the task of the time and the essence of the poem， poem as a unique artistic tactic， when poem reflect the time， it need to keep its exclusive feature . if poem always be catering to or following up the public， it may lost its quality . Good poem should leap out ， to stand high to inspect the meaning of the time， and use wisdom of poem to estimate the time， this is called the task of poem.
■峭 岩：前边还是谈到了对于政事抒怀诗的一些主张 ，就一部一首政事抒怀诗的产生，故然有他的期间布景，就像雪产生在冬天里一样，鱼也只可在水里助长 。
期间任务与诗歌本色是互动的相关 ，诗歌行为寂然的艺术技巧 ，诗歌反映这个期间时，保留我方的寂然品格才行。如果诗歌对它身处的期间，一味的投合、紧跟也可能丧失诗歌的本色 。优秀的诗歌应该跳出来，站在高处扫视这个期间的真义 ，又以诗歌的灵敏对这个期间加以评判，这才是诗歌的任务。
ZWZ: you are always underscoring the independence of the poem， to me ， this could be a certain internal ideology in literature. But as far as your opinion is concerned， it may also let the reader to understand your works including the long poems that included the theme of history. So ，we also can take the creation itself as reflection of flexible of “body in as soon as body out”.
Good， let me just leave this topic， to cast a glance at the other kind of scenery---- you’ve ever been to Deutsch， and France as a visiting poet， which foreign poets impress you deeper ， or were there any potential ----they had ever impacted you by a certain manner?
Qiaoyan: To say one of my experiences， it got too ridiculous， to my way of thinking， some poems of west are also popular there， crammed their romantic and colorful life ， may full of poetic romantic . however， it’s not the facts. For example， before I went to the France， I did ready enough， let the English translator of my unit translate a few poems， for reciting and communication there. But out of my expectation， I hadn’t met a man who can understand me， there is less place in journals there for poem either. Poem be hided deeply there， it’s difficult to hear the voice of poem in public and markets. Except you point out that poet by speak out his name precisely.
Of course ， we have chance to communicate with the foreign poets， in Netherlands， Italy， Vietnam，Laos， we had touched each other face to face. Those are fragments that we had ever comprehended for the obstacles of language， of diversity of national situations. In summary， the foreign poets have their different feature of realms， have their own view of value， life， and aesthetics， they scarcely talk about politics， but only to care about the feeling of art. This is a little bit of different from us， it may the main reason of why the foreign poems generally being too egoistic.
■峭 岩：提及这一段阅历很好笑 ，我以为，西方一些国度的诗歌在那里也很普遍，挤满他们纵欲多彩的生存里，一定充满诗意的纵欲。其实，满不是那回事儿 。比如去法国之前 ，我做了充分的准备 ，让我单元的英语翻译翻译了好几首诗歌，准备在那里诵读或者交流。然则 ，令我悲怆的是莫得遭受一个懂我的人 ，那里的报纸杂志也很少有诗歌的地位。诗歌在那里藏的很深，在大庭广众之下，在市面上很难有诗歌的声息。除非你指名找那里的某个墨客。
天然也有契机和番邦墨客交流 ，在荷兰，防范大利，在越南，在老挝都有正面构兵，由于谈话欠亨、国情不同，了解到的东西很不成块，稀稀落落 。总的嗅觉，番邦墨客有他们的地域性，有他们的价值观、人生观、审顺眼 ，他们简直不问政事 ，只顾及我方的艺术嗅觉 。似乎这少量和咱们大不一样 。这亦然番邦诗歌普遍存在的过于自我的主要原因。
ZWZ: It really be a certain circumstance which is depressed.our contemporary poems ， may lacked of a certain effective medium， e.g: good translators which aware of poems well. Relatively speaking， we understand more of the west poems ， and being more aware of the west literature. From an obviously level，久久精品无码一区二区www there is far less passions from west countries than from China for translation foreign cultures. As a sophisticated poet， could you please talk about the west poetry of which you have been aware?
Qiaoyan: there had been less and less works of native poets ever be translated in China， until the opening-up time came. Even the works of poet like me， have chances to be translated. Compilations Of Famous Poets Of Contemporary compiled by Fu Tianhong published by Ying He press of Hong Kong( two languages with English contrasted to Chinese)， nearly hundreds of poet’s works are corrected in the collection， my work Short Poems Of Qiaoyan was also selected. And Poetic System Of China published by YiKe press of Singapore， edited by Chen Yan， translated by Qi Fengyan， selected my poems too. My comprehension of west poems added to such texts which as a leading， I suggest that ， there are factors more humanistic and philosophic in the west poetry， to me ，it’s rather a huge simulation， e.g: The Wasteland of Whitman， it is poetic in sense of its title， it’s not Green Plain， not the Plateau， but Wasteland. The poet take the wilderness as the symbol of civilization during post-war， he implied us， the wasteland which underwent the war and the relic of the war， need green to renew it， need new sunshine to vitalize it. However the reality is full of desires which be in low class and vulgar. But the poet is the height of the society， the height of the civilization of human， planted a wide range of spring sunshine and nice future with poems on the wasteland through exposing and critics. The poet said that ， the thunder of spring is re-echoed in the distance beyond the mountain. “ black clouds in the distance， concentrated on the mountain XimaWante， “with lightning flicked ， and then a humid wind brings the rain. This is a passion and hope for the future， for the recovering of the life， for resilient mentality ， for spring coming back to the ground.
Award- winner of Nobel 2022， the America poet Louis. Gericke， is a writer won for “taking a another way which hasn’t been taken by any other people.the panel of judges， commented her works as follow: the homeliness of her poems’ beauty built by the accurate language of poem， made individuals obtained their generality. To say that ，Gericke’s poem are featured by coming back to the classical style， studying the ancient Greek， she is always rewriting the myth from Greek and Rome， to absorb inspirations in the totem of classical and myth. She cared for life situation more of low classes， and their birth and death， and individual value. It’s of great different from what we have always paid attention to.
In contrast， the philosophic ， sacred and the homeliness of language， and personal feeling of the west poem， all deserve to be learned by us.
■峭 岩：中国翻译本国作者、墨客的作品，开放前少之又少。开放后迟缓多了起来。连我这么的墨客，都有契机翻译成英文出书。香港星河出书社傅天虹主编的《中国现代诗名家集萃》〔英汉语对照〕，出书了近几百位墨客的作品，其中编选了我的《峭岩短诗选 》。由陈岩主编、齐凤艳翻译、新加坡亿科出书社出书的《中国诗系》，入选了我的《峭岩诗选》。也算过了把外文出书的隐。
对于番邦诗歌的影响 ，就我的了解和阅读中 ，西方诗歌的形而上学性 ，抑或人道的东西比较强烈 ，于我是一个不小的颤动 。比如惠特曼的《荒漠》，它的题目就很诗意化，不是“绿原”，也不是“高原”，而是“荒漠 ”。墨客以荒漠象开荒后的欧洲斯文 ，他线路给咱们 ，这块历经干戈的地盘需要绿色的栽培 ，需要新的光明的不满。而现实则充满了庸俗和初级的欲望 ，墨客恰是在这么一个社会的高度，人类斯文的高度，通过揭露和批判 ，在荒漠的这片萧条的地盘上， 用诗歌在荒漠的地面上，栽植了一派春光和美好的改日。墨客说：“春雷在远处的山那处泛动”“乌云在远方，在喜马万特山聚合”，“电光一闪 ，然后一阵湿气的风带来了雨 ”。这是对改日，对性命复苏，精神回生，以及春回地面，委托了温煦和但愿 。
ZWZ: As the representative of the most active poet so far in our Chinese poem circle， what you have estimated on the west poems ， in my view of point ，it is a stimulation for yourself， it proved your willing in profile on poetry which is the desire of creation and breaking out of tradition. When we overlook the poetic garden of human， what do you think of the international poetic circles? As I know， you have been so far playing some important roles in a lot of poetry journal or communities， how did those recently diversifying poetry conference impress you through those journal and communities? How do you think of those activity of poetic circles? Whom did these activities bred?
Qiaoyan: This also be a exterior phenomenon of the prosperity of the poem. Foreign poet are so envious of the Chinese poets， for they can participate variety of poetic activity， sightseeing， interviewing， colloquium and evaluation activities in essay competitions ...just presented too delightful or overdriven. They are confused on how these poems are generated.
It’s no doubt， that ， such poems have been the behavior of the nation， the group， and be run as daily works. It’s both benefit and harmful to us. The benefits is to enlarge our visionary ， to improve communications， rich the accumulation. the disadvantage is that we are difficult to create good poems when we are in a state of participating all the activities of poetry like the trotting horse lamp. Majority of poets depend on this manner to accumulate materials， and to process the work when go back home.
The International Pen For Chinese Poets which I am responsible for some works of it， is a big academic group in international. It created in June 6， 1993， in the cheers for prosperity of poems， supported by poets of China and one from overseas. Up to hundred people attended the poetry conference during its most thriving times. At its initial ， is Li Qin who from Hang Kong be tasked with the chairman， and Ye Man be the chairman of initial establishments; today ， turn to Zhang Shijian who’s from Hang Kong to act as chairman， and I be the deputy. Hong Santai， Sarentuya， Cai Lishuang are tasked with vice-chairmen. It has so far hold 22 plenary session. The pen set two great awards[ golden award for contemporary poetic soul of China][ golden award for great contributor within contemporary poets]， it is very respected by society. Old poets that is Ai Qin， Zang Kejia， He Jingzhi， Guo Xiaocuan， Li Yin， Zeng Zuo， Zhou Difan， Jidimajia， and Lei Shuyan， and so on， have all won the great awards. In the plenary session of Chang Le in province Fujian， we added a another award that is International poetry award of Bin Xin.
The Pen have always been supported by He Jingzhi， Jidi Majia， Yue Xuanyi， and Xiaoxue.
The purpose of the Pen， is to develop the tradition of Chinese poetry， through taking the form of international and domestic communications， to enlarge the impacts， proclaim creations， compensate the experience for each other， saw and cultivate in the more widely realms， let the spirit of Chinese poetry broadcast all over the world.
Several decades had we engaged in， we obtained a lot， published more than ten “THE WORLD OF POETRY”，cultivated mass of poets of international Chinese. During the most recent session of 20th， 21th， emerged large amounts of poets， such as Lu Jing， Huang Dongcheng， Gui Xinhua， PanGen， Fu Tianhong， Cai Zongzhou， Dong Peilun， Kangqiao， and the Xiong Guohua Tang Deliang， Yang Siping， Mo Shanxian， Ludao， Zeng Xinyou， Dong Zhenguo that from inland; and Shalang ， Zhang Jizheng， Zhao Xiaobo， Chen Juan， Luyu， Zhou Han that from Hong Kong， and Zhuang Weijie from Australia， Zhen Chouyu， Luti， Fang Ming from Tai Wai， Wang Xingcu from America， Ma yan from Korea， Wang Tao from Malaysia， Linjing from Singapore， are all the backbone power of the Pen. They are all brilliant for their great poems that generated from their homelands respectively.
It deserve to raise the famous poet Shalang who comes from Hang Kong， under the impacts and support of the International Pens For Chinese poets， he created the Research council For International Contemporary Chinese poetry， to improve the prosperity of the Hong Kong poetry， he united the local poets and critics， based on Hong Kong， Face to the world， to carry out great scale of discussion of Chinese poetry， to debate in a more large range the origin and charm of the poetry， and having so far impacted people from domestic and overseas.
笔会的宗旨是，推崇中国诗歌光荣传统，以国外、国内交流的时局，扩大影响，淡薄创新，教授互补，在更大范围播撒培植，让中国诗歌精神播送世界。几十年走来，成绩了不少，出书了十几部《诗世界》，培养了一大宗国外中文墨客。比如，最近举办的第20届、21届墨客笔会上受奖的墨客吕进、黄东成、桂兴华、盼耕、傅天虹、蔡宗周、董佩伦、康桥，以及大陆的熊国华、唐德亮、杨四平、莫善贤、绿岛、曾新交、董振国 ，香港的沙浪 、张继征、招小波、陈娟 、路羽、周翰，澳大利亚的庄伟杰 ，台湾的郑愁予、绿蒂、方明，美国的王性初、韩国的马彦.、马来西亚的王涛 、新加坡的林锦等，都是笔会的主干力量。他们在各自的地盘上，盛开诗歌的光彩。
ZWZ：As a sophisticated poet， to some degree is just like a window of the poetic circle， through you ，readers can see half of the poetic world----most of poets may hope to participate some Pens， to experience the humanity in orientation of the world constructed by poets.
Qiaoyan: these prosperity of Pens， demonstrated the immortal and of a mass character. A country with population of 1.4 billion， a great ancient country with poetic style of Tang dynasty and Song dynasty， carrying out activities， and creating festival of poetry， is the basic manner. It played a important role in developing the Chinese poetic spirit， pushing forward the Chinese poetry.
Of course ， there is a suspicion of formalism， how to improve the quality of poetic activities， to aim at the present problems precisely， e.g: to add aura to academic research， award contributors among the poets， improve the status of poetry in the local systems， and so on， are all wait to be explored.
ZWZ: You had ever been the mentor of the Literature System Of PLA Art Institute， also be the leader of the PLA press， how do you think that between the secularity and PLA literature and art， what form should there be existed except of strong humanity and heroic characters and the symbols of politic lyricism? In other words， are they correct for each other or do the works respectively or being opposite between this and that literature and art when they are comprising the whole national literature and artistic lives?
Qiaoyan : The military literature and art is the important parts of the Chinese literature and art. It had ever been the major stream for historic reason (namely :the war) in our country until long after the origin stage of nation’s l founding. Though the social system had changed ， the military literature and art as a vivifying force， is respected seriously by nation .
To keep the character of bloody spirit of military literature and art， harden soldiers’ willpower of persistent and dauntless， make them be brave to draw sword before any strong enemy of the world， is the first task of the military literature and art. Form this point of view， it is harmonious with national literature and art， and being complementary with the later and boost later.
As regard as the development problem of the military poetry， it remind me of the year 2019 which I had a correspondence with Tutor Xie Mian which published by the journal PLA in the year， to talk about the problem in specialty of how to apply the military poems to the great time， how to improve the military poems’ writing to a better level. The heroism necessarily is the formal phenomenon and daily attitude， but it also include the content of secularity， the soldier is also a mortal man for demand of substance of folk， for their desire and sensibility， their require for the warmth from home and taking care of neighbour or being concerned by them. But there is a boundary between the military and secular world， those of vulgar and dirty， are refused by the former.
to make the military writer to comprehend the local things， to make the later also realize the former， the original GPD allied with the WSOC with a signed document， to recognize the writer of military to visit local writers regularly， and inversely. It’s no doubt a good tactic to strong and expand the national integral literature. The PLA today is reconstructed， how should the literature and art of China to melt into and construct its culture， are still wait to be negotiated.
ZWZ: Who are closed most to yours in view of poetry among the poets of the old generates? Whether you think that for the purpose of forming a sincere and honest communication and auras of poetry around us， or to form a natural aura of poetic academic interchange， may get achievement both by variety of poetic activities and the practices of entering situations of mutually improved in creation and academy by exceeding general activity of poem? Which is more utopia ?
Qiaoyan: I have gown up on the shoulder of predecessors， on my way to the poetry， there are so many old poets as a special companion. About this point ， Ludao had written one chapter titled with Admire The Great Master in the book that called Biography Of Qiaoyan， marked my communication with the old generations in special.
E. g: Tianjian， Aiqing， Liu Baiyu， Wei Wei， Li Ying， He jingzhi， Xie Mian and so on. There are fully with the story， tears， and the past that ever moved our psyche. Their light shining at me， led me step by step toward the sacred hall of poem.
ZWZ: As regard Wei Wei， we all may have ever learned a text titled with Who Is The Most Lovely Man at school， so ， it sounds somewhat warm and strange when it is mentioned by you. I know that there is a reportage with biography style that written by you ，this work to some degrees can be seen as a transmitting of “the most lovely man”， it’s no doubt that ， Wei Wei in your work is also “The most lovely man”， could you please talk about this predecessor in detail? As a leading authority of the circle of prose， what relations have you ever got with him in poetry?
Qiaoyan: Right， just at the beginning of 1980s， I wrote Walk Towards The Burning Fields -- The Biography of Wei Wei， as a task on invitation of the Press Beiyue Literature And Art. I have a good relation with Wei Wei ， Li Yin， and Xie Mian. Wei Wei is a poet in the army which I had ever served， He was living close to my house， we have a lot of chance to visit each other. His Scenery Of The Dawn in my point of view is full of atmosphere of pureness and freshness which quite moved me. He had ever correct my poem， and written a preface with enthusiasm for my book The Lofty Man----Poetic Biography of Bai Qiuen. He indicated the title Bright Star ----The Dust Went Through The Years ， and tell me that : bright star ， content a metaphor， also has willing to be a bright star， to rise in the sky of poetic circle. What he said are really a expectation for me.
The heroic character and righteousness of the elder Wei impressed people well. Once I saw him standing in the yard， overlooking the black bird on the tree with a walking stick in hand， and muttering: “it comes when there is any situation， crying with sounds of ‘keke’， seems to tell me what... no one knows its name， I call it the black phoenix when we have known each other gradually，”actually， it’s the poem growing.
ZWZ: What about predecessor Li Yin?
Qiaoyan: Li Yin is the witness of my poems， my respected teacher. We have letters of communication which are all about poetry. Loving a poet ， namely to read his poem， and do communication with heart to heart. His Corpus of Zao Lin Village， and The Northern borderland Being Prosperous Like Fire are browsed by me time and time. Li Yin scarcely write preface for others， however he wrote the preface for my collection of prose poems Sensibility Of A Soldier. Just in a long article Display A Leaping World， he wrote down: likely discovered a new star， yearning for its rising into the sky of poetry. “ expressed a kind expectation from a elder to the inferior.”
He hadn’t teacher me how to write poem sentence by sentence， but I absorbed nutrition from his behaviors and speech. His eyes tell me his expectation and sincere， the follow and leaf which he collected teach me to love life， the bullets he picked back teach me to realize the contribution and war.
It’s the third anniversary of his death in March of this year， the PLA journal published my article of mourning him The Singing Cuckoo which represent my deepest commemoration.
■峭 岩： 李瑛是我诗歌的见证者，是我垂青的师长。咱们的信件有几十封，都是谈诗的。可爱一个墨客就读他的诗，在诗里谈心、对话。他的《枣林村集》《北疆红似火》是我翻乱了的书。李瑛很少为他人的书写序，而我的散文诗集《士兵的脸色》破天瘠土写了。在《展现一个跃动的世界》长文里，“像发现新星一样，瞩望着他在诗坛上起飞。”抒发了一位父老对晚辈的美好期待……
ZWZ：Contrarily， young generates may know tutor Xie Mian more than predecessor Li Yin， but it is also hard to say that more details about Mr Xie were comprehended by youth.can you talk of what your impression of tutor Xie? And the friendship between him and you?
Qianyan: it was at the beginning of 1990s， I was working in literature department of PLA artistic institution. And have keeping attitude of a pupil before Mr Xian for several decades since he was invited to our college， to absorb the nutrition from his spirit with my heart and soul， so as to consolidate my poetic barriers. Mr Xie is an old man featured with young ， he is good at talking and flexible with wisdom， everything he had spoken of can always reach the essence of things， and I was going to write down with my pen. One day， we went to the mountain Jiu Hua Shan to held a plenary session of poetry， Mr Xian stepped onto the stage， made a speach with great passion when the joss stick burning with smoke around us， and the vioce of Buddha echoed， he said: what is Buddha? It is the great wisdom， the great happiness， the great mercy! This is the stage of spirit which Chinese poetry need to learn!” what he said is astonishing to everyone at scene， caused a sea of raving.
I have always visit him with Ludao and Liu Xiaowei， we chatted with happy with a cup of wine in our hand， asking the God ，the ground. Mr Xie was walking with witticism constantly. The journal Chinese Poetry invited Mr Xie to inscribe for the journal， Mr Xie thought about it for a little while， the magnificent panorama of mountain and the liver of China sprang up gathered under his pen， he wrote down a poem of Jiadao: “the autumn wind blows the water Wei， fallen leaves full with the Chang An city”， later ，he talked of the background of this poem of Jiadao glidingly. We have learned a lot from Mr Xie through everything of him.
A deep friendship were established day by day between I and him. Mr Xie also had ever served for the PLA force when he was young， he is the leader of army ranked of deputy platoon， so Mr Xie in my heart is not only a tutor， but also a veteran， therefore there is a feeling of being closed between us. It’s no doubt， heart connected within pupil and his teacher. Just in last month， I called him when I missed him for several moths without seeing each other， likely I had foreseen something. There came a voice of his old companion teacher Chen from the other end of the phone : Mr Xie was hurt by a fall， he is in hospital...I was surprised by this information， couldn’t even speak a word.
Mr Xie has stuck to physical training for decades， was always being a state of good healthy both in body and mind， his birthday of 90 past not long ago， how can he hurt by fall? Until a poem of him and a picture of his being in the hospital with beam were uploaded through We-Chat， presented to us， can I stop to worrying about him.
It is such things between the pupil and his teacher， likely having left for three autumns while no seen for a day. We decided to see him as soon as the epidemic situation be relieved.
■峭 岩： 和谢冕敦厚成为知友是九十年代初，当时我在解放军艺术学院文体系劳动，请谢老来学院讲学初始，几十年的交际我老是学生的姿态，心领面受他的精神养分，加固我的诗歌壁垒。谢老是一个芳华白叟，他健谈况且灵动灵敏，一言一语总能抵达事物的本色，我也会用条记下来。一次去九华山的九子岩开诗会，濒临香火缭绕、佛音泛动，他上台激情地说：“佛是什么？是大灵敏、大逍遥、大悯恤，这正中国诗歌应该鉴戒的田地！”一语压众声，场下嗟叹声一派。
ZWZ: A sincere expectation for Mr Xie to recover soon! Contrary to the historic meeting between Mr Xie and the young generation， I think that ， here also included a consciousness of avant-garde. Teacher Qiaoyan， how do you think， whether there is avant-garde in our age? Suppose there is a contemporary idealism， how to describe poets that bears such idealism?
Qiaoyan: The history is always like that ， to guide by the advanced thoughts， changed by some pioneers， they had ever been brilliant， remembered by that age. Poem as a sensible nerve of time， almost every time has its own representative since its birth， they intended to reform by implement their own advocating， until a ideal kingdom emerges. Hu Shi， Xu Zhimo， Ai QING， Cangyao， Su Ting， Haizi， and so on， are all wrote into the history by their bright character of pioneer .
I consider that ， in the complicate and multiple form of the present society which being at the turning of the history， we poets must apply ourselves to the great mind， great arrangement with great mind， and the great work. The avant-garde of this time， are necessarily be the selfless and justice， not only serve the world first， but also restrain themselves severely. Under the precondition of public consciousness， to be a lone traveler of soul， inspect the world with philosophy， to describe the time with special language of poem， to provide the public of nowadays thoughts which could enlighten.
ZWZ: So much obtained from the communication here， thanks to you ，my teacher， and for your kind of accepting the interview.
BRIEF INTRODUCTION OF INTERVIEWER AND INTERVIEWEE
Qiaoyan: former deputy director and senior editor and supervisor of PLA Press， the deputy chairman of International Pen Club for Chinese poets， the chief editor of Poetic world of China. Have so far published collections and works that counted for 60， in genre of short poem， long poem， prose ，biography， and theoretical works. He was awarded the Golden Prize For Chinese Contemporary Poetic Soul by International Pen Club for Chinese poets， and his works have so far won variety of awards from domestic to overseas.
峭 岩：原解放军出书社副社长兼编审，现为国外中文墨客笔会常务主席，《中国诗界 》总编。出书短诗、长诗、散文、列传、表面文章60余部，本身获国外中文墨客笔会授予的《中国现代诗魂金奖 》，其作品获国番邦内多种奖项。
Zhang Wenzhe: Chinese female poet， literary theorist from Zhu JI ，Zhe Jiang province. The author of works such as prose poem collection On The Main Land; the theoretical monograph on prose poetry The Society Of Prose Poetry; the work concerns philosophy of literature and art Micro-Exploration Of Chinese Socialistic Aesthetics (systematic， and still to be comprehensive); the work concerns art philosophy titled with The Dream， Art And Humanism with words counted for more than a million . the work The Other Bank Of Literature: From The Genre “Among The Flowers” To The Poem Of Qiaoyan ( her another theoretical monograph on commenting of Qiaoyan’s poem is included in Micro-Exploration Of Chinese Socialistic Aesthetics ); and The Cultural Genealogy Of Ownership And It’s Subjects----The Micro-Exploration On Contemporary Poetry( which is the extension of series Micro-Exploration Of Chinese Socialistic Aesthetic); and so on.